Forum:Japanese naming
Should the Japanese name for places and things be introduced after the bold-type English name in each article page? I have noticed that many articles already include the Japanese name after the bold-type English name.--Puoukkk (talk) 18:03, June 21, 2011 (UTC) Also, I have noticed that some articles feature the "Hylian" transliteration of the English-language name of places and things. I think that in many cases these transliterations are not canon, since I would assume the in-game text features transliterations of Japanese rather than English. For example, the Kakariko village page on Zeldapedia transliterates the English word "village" into Hylian rather than "mura" the Japanese word. I do not feel Zeldapedia should have English transliterations into "Hylian" next to the bold-type English name unless that specific Hylian name can be found within a game or official source. I think that the "Hylian" name (if it exists in canon) should be written in the interior rather than the introduction to the article, so there is room for an explanation as to where it is found in-game (to avoid editors adding their own un-sourced transliteration into Hylian which is not canon).--Puoukkk (talk) 18:11, June 21, 2011 (UTC) :All of the Hylian on this wiki has appeared in-game, as far as I've seen. For that specific example, it appeared on the TP map. As for the Japanese translations, I think they should only be given when it can be verified that that is the translation used in the Japanese versions of the games, and not just a direct translation to the Japanese (which I think is already the standard on this wiki).--DrewMek (talk) 20:13, June 21, 2011 (UTC) ::Yes, the Japanese-language terms and the Hylian-language terms should both be cited, so others can verify them.--Puoukkk (talk) 20:18, June 21, 2011 (UTC) The Japanese text should be included on the pages if they aren't already, and the meanings should remain in Etymology sections. Grr Edit conflict It wasn't the adding of Japanesse content you were warned about it was the adding it to the info box, which I admit could be a runner but you'll have to see what the rest of the community thinks first. And of course I agree with having the canon names over anything else. If you are willing to take this on, be warned you'll probably have to do it for most articles on the wiki, Oni Link 20:23, June 21, 2011 (UTC) I do not see a clear majority of users supporting your idea of citing things, especially seeing as how we don't usually do that. You've jumped the gun majorly here; wait until there's a clear-cut answer. --AuronKaizer ''' 06:00, June 22, 2011 (UTC) :In case other editors do not know what "AuronKaizer" was referring to, I was citing where I found the Japanese-language name, so everybody else could see that it was the legitimate Japanese name. I did this because DrewMek suggested that Japanese names should only be given when "it can be verified".--Puoukkk (talk) 13:48, June 22, 2011 (UTC) ::I think we should turn to anyone who has played the Japanese games first, as that is the most direct of available sources. Other sources should be verified, but not nececarily cited (for instance, I have some music files from Wind Waker referring to some characters by their origional Japanese names. I am quite sure that they are accurate, but I should check first). Either way, anyone who knows with absolute certainty what someone/something's name is in Japanese should post it.--Long User Name 07:50, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::Yes, primary sources are a must. The sources I used were either the official Japanese websites for the Zelda games or in-game footage showing the Japanese name of things. I could use the invisibility-causing to cite where I find the information without it showing on the non-editing page.--Puoukkk (talk) 14:42, June 23, 2011 (UTC) Using doesn't look good, edit screen or not. --Jäzzi(Talk) 14:45, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :Do you understand what does? It makes the text invisible. --Puoukkk (talk) 14:47, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::You clearly do not understand what I just said. I said edit screen or not, meaning, if it's viewed in the edit screen, it still looks bad as if it were viewed regularly. And considering the fact I probably know more about coding than you do, you should consider how you phrase your words so you're not coming off as higher than someone who knows their way around coding and the wiki. --Jäzzi(Talk) 14:55, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::My interpretation of your previous response was that you did not understand what did, since you were claiming it would not "look" good. I felt I had to clarify what it did for you.--Puoukkk (talk) 14:59, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::: Stuff like this on the edit screen doesn't make the page look good, unless you're hiding the section because you're doing a big edit on another part of the page. See what I mean. --Jäzzi(Talk) 15:02, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::::So, in your opinion, I should just add the Japanese name after the bolded English name without any kind of citation?--Puoukkk (talk) 15:06, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :I don't feel it's needed. Coming from a wiki that has Japanese naming due to the fact it's a Japanese originating anime/manga/game, and editing at school, we'll be dealing with broken characters. And it can get messy. And then there's the factor of jumping the gun... --Jäzzi(Talk) 15:10, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::So, I should not add citations and should only add the Japanese name.--Puoukkk (talk) 15:18, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm pretty sure I'm speaking English right now. I just said I don't think it's needed, other users might think it's needed, but I for one don't. So wait till another user comments, because my view isn't going to change. --Jäzzi(Talk) 15:22, June 23, 2011 (UTC) I do not think citations are needed either. Do I have permission to add Japanese names after the bolded English name without citations?--Puoukkk (talk) 15:30, June 23, 2011 (UTC) I don't really know how much this is needed, at least not in the articles themselves. It seems to only attract nitpicking and arguments as to how the original Japanese wording is. Methinks a separate article containing all of a game's original Japanese names makes things a lot easier, especially considering our primary concern is and should remain English. If there's a Japanese Zelda Wiki as well, this also diminishes our need of this in my opinion. --AuronKaizer ' 15:56, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :There is a japanese zelda wiki. --Jäzzi(Talk) 15:58, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::Thank you for the link. I was unaware that a Japanese-language wiki existed for the Zelda universe. I no longer feel Japanese names should be on this wiki at all. I think that each page should provide the interlanguage link to the Japanese-language wiki similar to the way it already provides interlanguage links to the Spanish-language Zelda wiki--Puoukkk (talk) 16:26, June 23, 2011 (UTC) Problem is that wiki has less then a dozen pages Oni Link 18:40, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :Sigh. You should probably confirm with an ''admin before setting up interwiki links. 'Specially when the wiki is sub-par. --Jäzzi(Talk) 18:49, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::Hmm... who is the administrator? Will he or she be available for communication in this forum or do I have to e-mail him or her?--Puoukkk (talk) 18:52, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :::There are no female admins on this site, no we are not sexist. A list of our admins are as followed: User talk:AuronKaizer, User talk:The Midna, User talk:Minish Link, User talk:McGillivray227 and User talk:Jedimasterlink. --Jäzzi(Talk) 19:06, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::::AuronKaizer, what do you think about interwiki language links to a burgeoning wiki?--Puoukkk (talk) 19:10, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :Saying their user name isn't just going to make them appear on the forum. There's a reason I linked to the talk pages. --Jäzzi(Talk) 19:11, June 23, 2011 (UTC) Okay, so this is getting a little bit off-topic here. These interwiki links really serve a dual purpose, providing readers with the Japanese kanji or whatever as well as providing a link to the wiki. Again, I think that a sub-article for each game detailing all Japanese language names (and only Japanese, seeing as how it's the original language and all) would be much more helpful for those seeking this sort of information than just going around specific articles in the hope that a (probably incorrect) Japanese name will be provided, and would also prevent edit "wars" on separate subject pages as I've found people to be most inconsistent about this whole translation deal. Problem? --AuronKaizer ' 21:20, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :I second that idea. I think it would be good to have one page with the names of things in Japanese.--Puoukkk (talk) 21:25, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :I also like this idea. I value some method of accessing Japanese name translations/meanings on this wiki, as the official English names sometimes vary significantly from the Japanese meaning. This seems like a relatively unobtrusive, easy-to-keep-track-of way to accomplish this. :On a side note, the construction "this looks bad, edit screen or not" essentially states "this looks bad, inside the edit screen or outside it". This makes no sense in the case of text that's invisible outside the edit screen, which is why Puoukkk thought you must have misunderstood him, Jazzi. :EDIT: Also, I'm a big fan of citing sources here, since information regarding translations is so often inaccurate (as noted already), and difficult to debate as most users lack the requisite knowledge of the Japanese language to enter into the discussion. Seems to me like having a reference list at the bottom of the page with sources is a very effective way to achieve this that doesn't interrupt the flow of the article itself. Knives182 (talk) 22:48, June 23, 2011 (UTC) :This discussion is so convoluted that I don't really know what to say, but I like this idea. It'd probably be easier than, as AK pointed out, edit wars on individual pages. -'Minish Link 23:35, June 23, 2011 (UTC)